Hatred III: the Hispanic panic
Apr 13th, 2011 by Unamused
Welcome back to “Hatred,” Unamusement Park’s five-part documentary on the War on Hate. In part one, we observed how anti-racists react when John Derbyshire pokes them with a stick, by which I mean: tells them about intelligence research that insufficiently flatters black people. In part two, with decidedly bigger fish to fry, we tiptoed up to the railroad tracks of gender feminism and slapped both hands on the third rail of rape responsibility — which, I suppose, would fry a very big metaphorical fish.
Today, there will be no frying of fish. Today, we take that big fish… and we grill it with salsa verde! Ay, caramba!

This picture made me so hungry, I stopped writing and went to a Mexican restaurant. After my meal, I had them all deported.
It’s a genetic epic: an Hispanic panic! Are they ethnic or organic? That third rail was galvanic.
I’m manic.
Definition, or: Hispanics — what are they and how do they work?
What are Hispanics, anyway? (Or should I say Latinos? Latino-Hispanics?) Are they a race? An ethnic group? What’s the difference? I thought races were social constructs anyway. Does that make ethnic groups super-social constructs? AAAAAAAH IT’S SO CONFUSING.
Let’s get the basics out of the way. (This is still much further than “anti”-racists ever get.) The term “Hispanic” has many meanings, of varying degrees of uselessness, complicated by the fact that no one can decide what term to use.
For now I’ll work with the most official definition of all, officially introduced by the US government in the official 1970 Census. (Back then, the term was “Hispanic.” By 2000, it had been updated to “Spanish/Hispanic/Latino.” Someone must have complained.) Currently, according to the US Office of Management and Budget, the term (actually, they use “Hispanic or Latino,” but let’s not quibble) means “a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.”
By this definition, “Hispanic” is not a race. Not one little bit. (Someone should really explain that to Hispanic gangs, so they stop warring with black gangs.) According to the very official US Census, it is an ethnicity. It’s also the only ethnicity: you are either “Hispanic or Latino” or “Non-Hispanic or Latino.” (Self-identifying as both, a logical contradiction, is neither explicitly allowed nor prohibited.)
So what’s an ethnicity? According to Wikipedia:
a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy. “…in general it is a highly biologically self-perpetuating group sharing an interest in a homeland connected with a specific geographical area, a common language and traditions, including food preferences, and a common religious faith.”
Other definitions are similar: “people of the same race or nationality who share a distinctive culture” (Free Dictionary); people “sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like” (Dictionary.com); a classification “according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background” (Merriam-Webster Dictionary). But we know better than to think ethnicity is racial.
Heritage, or: Once upon a time in Mexico
Unfortunately, people “of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin” do not share a common language, a common culture, or a common religion — distinctive or otherwise. Anyone who thinks they do is more racist than I’ll ever be.
What, then, is this “heritage” they share? Surely not a genetic heritage! Although that’s usually what a “common ancestry or endogamy” implies… and it would be “highly biologically self-perpetuating”…
Other people, especially Hispanics, are confused too — frustrated, even. From Time magazine (March 29, 2010):
Many, if not most, Hispanics in the U.S. think of their ethnicity (also known as Latino) not just in cultural terms but in a racial context as well. It’s why more than 40% of Hispanics, when asked on the Census form in 2000 to register white or black as their race, wrote in “Other” — and they represented 95% of all the 15.3 million people in the U.S. who did so.
An even larger share of Hispanics, including my Venezuelan-American wife, is expected to report “Other,” “Hispanic” or “Latino” in the race section of the 2010 census forms being mailed to U.S. homes this month. What makes it all the more confusing if not frustrating to them is that Washington continues to insist on those forms that “Hispanic origins are not races.” If the Census Bureau lists Filipino and even Samoan as distinct races, Hispanics wonder why they — the product of half a millennium of New World miscegenation — aren’t considered a race too.
Miscegenation… that’s got something to do with races, right? Must not be important, then. We’ll leave it until later.
Race, or: (d) none of the above
The Washington Post (July 14, 2003) reports the same curious phenomenon.
“Nearly 50 percent of Latinos who filed a Census report said they were white, according to the center’s report.
The 2.7 percent of Latinos who described themselves as black, most of them from the Caribbean, had lower incomes and higher rates of poverty than the other groups — despite having a higher level of education.
Among Latinos who described themselves as “some other race,” earnings and levels of poverty and unemployment fell between black and white members of their ethnic group. About 47 percent of Latinos said on Census forms that they are “some other race,” according to the report.
“The point of the report,” said John R. Logan, the report’s lead researcher, “is that if we take seriously the way people talk about their race, and the reality of their lives, we find that there are real distinctions between white and black Latinos and Hispanics who say they are some other race.” …
In the average metropolitan neighborhood where white Hispanics live, there are hardly any residents who are black Hispanic, the study found. The same is true in neighborhoods populated by Hispanics who say they are neither white nor black.
Fascinating. Apparently, “if we take seriously the way people talk about their race, and the reality of their lives” (but who would want to do that?), “we find that there are real distinctions between white and black Latinos and Hispanics who say they are some other race.”
Ask Hispanics about their race, and you get one of three answers, almost 100 percent of the time: white, black, or other. I wonder… what should we name this other race of Hispanics?
Culture, or: nobody expects an Hispanic inquisition
Frankly, “Hispanic” does not seem to be a particularly useful or natural way to categorize people. After all, a black child of black parents, born in Puerto Rico but raised in Philadelphia, is Hispanic by definition. So are
- a half-white, half-Asian child living in Mexico and immersed in Mexican culture,
- anyone — anyone at all — who partakes of any part of Puerto Rican or Cuban or Brazilian or Spanish culture, and is inclined to label themselves “Hispanic,”
- the more than 11,000 migrants kidnapped by Mexican gangs during one six-month period in 2010, including the 72 massacred last August,
- the Mexicans crossing into the United States to kidnap Americans for ransom, gun them down, or rape them by the hundreds of thousands — or just waiting until Spring Break, and
- the entire population of Spain.
It’s not just who we include, it’s why we include them. If we insist on making “Hispanic” about culture, then we’ve mashed together the cultures, past and present, of Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, South America, Central America, and Spain; from soccer to bullfighting, from Rioplatense baroque architecture to ethnic cleansing. (Gang culture is culture too, you know.)
How is this a useful classification? Under this definition, what is the point of knowing whether or not someone is Hispanic? They could be talking about human sacrifice or invading England. It’s very confusing.

According to my browser history, "confused Hispanic doctor" is one of my most popular searches, right up there with "gratuitous French girl," "lazy black mugger," and "aroused Finnish rodeo clown."
Drop culture from the definition and it makes a little more sense: “a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish… origin, regardless of race.” Now at least we’re talking about people with a real biological ancestral link to a real geographical location. (Geography isn’t racist, right? Oh good.) There’s still something out of place, though… and I can’t quite —
SPAIN, or: the rain in Spain stays mainly on Hispanics
Spain? I wasn’t expecting a sort of — oh, I already used that joke.
Personally, I had never heard of the Spanish being Hispanic until now. Certainly a lot of people studying Hispanics prefer to differentiate between them and the Spanish — probably because the whole subject is confusing as hell (see above).
There are about 25 million Spanish Americans, but that includes anyone “[t]racing their ancestry in Spain, including white Latin Americans of Spanish ancestry.” So it seems “Spanish American” means something like “white and Hispanic.” Of the 25 million “Spanish Americans,” only 350,000 are actually Spaniards; the rest are “[w]hite Hispanic or [white] Latino of Spanish ancestry.”
In America, then, we would be modifying the definition of “Hispanic” by less than two percent if we omitted the Spanish, reserving “Hispanic” for people of Latin American descent. (Of course, the change would be even tinier in Latin America.) Then our definition would at least match the Merriam-Webster’s definition of “Latino”: “a native or inhabitant of Latin America,” or “a person of Latin-American origin living in the United States.”
Now why would we want to omit the Spanish? Read on, sir or madam. Read on.
Miscegenation, or: “White girls, they’re pretty funny, sometimes they drive me mad./Black girls just wanna get fucked all night, I just don’t have that much jam.”
(I considered calling it “Black Holes And Miscegenations” after my fourth favorite Muse album, but that’s just crass.)
What were those Hispanics complaining about in Time magazine, again? Someone ate their delicious tacos? No, that wasn’t it at all.
Hispanics wonder why they — the product of half a millennium of New World miscegenation — aren’t considered a race too.
Miscegenation means people of different races having children together. When you look at traits with strong genetic components in interracial (or mixed-race) children, you often find that the kids lie somewhere in between their parents. Skin color is one obvious example — look at Barack Obama (half white, half black). Intelligence is another (Appendix A).
What does this have to do with Hispanics? That depends on which Hispanics we’re talking about. Who’s “the product of half a millennium of New World miscegenation”? Obviously not the Spanish Hispanics. Not the white or black or (almost nonexistent) Asian Hispanics, either. It’s those “none of the above” types who can’t figure out what race they are, but suspect it has something to do with Latin America.
The impeccably anti-racist Evergreen State College, in its celebration of National Hispanic Heritage Month, affirms that
["Hispanic"] is not a racial identification. Hispanic is more of a regional identification like saying “North American.” What is a Hispanic? Hispanics come in all sizes and shapes. There are Jewish, Arab, Asian, Indian, Black and White Hispanics as well as brown.

I assume one of them is Jewish, one of them is Arab, one of them is Indian, and one of them is plain ol' brown?
Anyway, here is the relevant part:
What most Americans perceive as brown is actually a mix of Indian [i.e., Native (Central or South) American] and White. When Spanish explorers settled the Americas, they did not bring families with them like the English settlers did when they arrived in the U.S. The Spanish explorers were mostly soldiers and priests, etc. As a result, the soldiers intermarried with the Indian women they found in the countries they explored [quite a euphemism, that]. The result was a new racial identity known as mestizos. In time, mestizos became the middle class and the largest population.
White? Native American? Those sound suspiciously like races. A mix of the two? That sounds suspiciously sort of like a race.
Genetics, or: we meet again, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza — but this time, it’s personal
As I pointed out in section 2 of “‘Scientific racism’ is actually valid science (part 2),” race exists, and it is genetic. The brown Hispanic sort-of race is not an exception. (Neither are the white European sort-of subraces — see Appendix B.) The following genetic map of the Americas is from Cavalli-Sforza’s unabridged History and Geography of Human Genes (1994). Now imagine mixing some white people into the middle bit and the part at the bottom. Boom, there’s your new race.
Scientists are working away on the genetic makeup of Hispanics. Harry Ostrer, professor of Pediatrics, Pathology and Medicine and director of the Human Genetics Program at NYU Langone Medical Center, has co-authored a 2010 paper, “Genome-wide patterns of population structure and admixture among Hispanic/Latino populations”, in PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America).
Hispanic/Latino populations possess a complex genetic structure that reflects recent admixture among and potentially ancient substructure within Native American, European, and West African source populations. …
Comparing autosomal, X and Y chromosome, and mtDNA variation, we find evidence of a significant sex bias in admixture proportions consistent with disproportionate contribution of European male and Native American female ancestry to present-day populations. …
Finally, using the locus-specific ancestry inference method LAMP, we reconstruct fine-scale chromosomal patterns of admixture. We document moderate power to differentiate among potential subcontinental source populations within the Native American, European, and African segments of the admixed Hispanic/Latino genomes.
Indeed, there is a lot of genetic variation in Latin America. A few centuries ago, some people were kind of obsessed with it.
From PNAS again (be careful with that acronym), “Admixture dynamics in Hispanics: A shift in the nuclear genetic ancestry of a South American population isolate” is a 2006 paper by the extremely racist and discriminatory anti-Hispanic scientists Gabriel Bedoya, Patricia Montoya, Jenny García, Ivan Soto, Stephane Bourgeois, Luis Carvajal, Damian Labuda, Victor Alvarez, Jorge Ospina, Philip W. Hedrick, and Andrés Ruiz-Linares, and edited by every race denialist’s favorite geneticist, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza (who secretly thinks they’re all nuts — sssshhhh, it’s a big racist conspiracy!).
Although it is well established that Hispanics generally have a mixed Native American, African, and European ancestry [I thought it had something to do with Spanish culture?], the dynamics of admixture at the foundation of Hispanic populations is heterogeneous and poorly documented. Genetic analyses are potentially very informative for probing the early demographic history of these populations. [Genetic histories? Clearly, this is KKK propaganda.] Here we evaluate the genetic structure and admixture dynamics of a province in northwest Colombia (Antioquia), which prior analyses indicate was founded mostly by Spanish men and native women.
Fascinating stuff. Too bad for them a bunch of internet geniuses already decided that race isn’t genetic. Time to give it up, Bedoya and Montoya.
The Hispanic race, or: “Lucky that I love a foreign man for/the lucky fact of your existence.”
The 47 percent of American Hispanics who don’t believe they belong to any race known to man aren’t crazy. They aren’t extraterrestrials, either. There is definitely some kind of race here somewhere.
We could call it brown, but we’re going to confuse the Egyptians and the Indians (from India). We could call it mestizo, but that’s about mixing races. Sure, that’s how it all started, but given that the Aztecs and Conquistadors aren’t kicking around Mexico City anymore, isn’t it time we came up with a more accurate name for this relatively stable group of people, with their common ancestry and their endogamy and their highly biologically self-perpetuating nature? Besides, mestizo already means a bunch of different things to different people.
Let’s try something crazy: let’s call this race “Hispanic.” We’ll call people from Latin American countries… um… “Latin Americans.” And we’ll just forget about culture for now, because it’s very complicated and subjective and it’s not genetic, either. Put race and nationality together, and you’ve got
- white Latin Americans, including white Latin American immigrants to the USA, whose kids would be white Americans (see below),
- black Latin Americans (ditto),
- Hispanic Latin Americans — you know, the ones you can tell are “Hispanic” just by looking at them,
- white Americans,
- black Americans,
- Hispanic Americans — you know, the 47 percent of “Hispanic” Americans who get confused when you ask them what race they are,
and so on.
Now, is this a useful way to classify people? Well, it’s based on genetic histories. Not on how strongly a person identifies herself with Latin American or Spanish culture. Not on having some ancestor from some country once colonized by Spain — oh, except for those Spanish colonies in Africa and the East Indies, to which the Spanish also brought their culture, especially their religion.
My crazy definition is socioculturally useful, too. Basically, it gives us a way to describe those brown-skinned people who live in Mexico and Cuba and Brazil and America and other places, and all seem to have something in common — no, not a common language or culture or religion. It’s something passed down from parents to children, generation after generation. Something based on a common ancestry. Something that makes this subset of “Hispanics” particularly highly biologically self-perpetuating.
Hispanic: it’s a race now
Try to make sense of our world with any other definition of “Hispanic.” I dare you.
- From the Wall Street Journal: “Univision Communications Inc. plans to launch at least two new Spanish-language cable channels in the U.S. in the next year, as an increasing number of competitors rush to cash in on the growth of the country’s Hispanic population. … it hopes to roll out the first new channel, built around soapy dramas called telenovelas… as early as this year’s third quarter. A new sports channel called Univision Deportes, focused on Mexican league soccer, is being readied for the first half of 2012.”
Are they targeting Spaniards, or perhaps black Puerto Ricans?
- From the Daily Caller: “Colorado, a state where Democrats have seen numerous victories in recent years, could be ready for a swing in 2012. … According to James Nava, writing at The Americano, the key to winning over Colorado’s Hispanic electorate is to ‘encourage family values, education and employment opportunities that will promote stability for Hispanic families and drastically reduce… child poverty.’”
What does this have to do with Cuban culture?
- From Texas GOP Vote: “The lawsuit brought on by the MALC [Mexican American Legislative Caucus] claims that the census numbers should not be used in Texas redistricting because they say the census underestimates the Hispanic population in south Texas.”
Good for them! I’m glad to see the Mexican American Legislative Caucus is looking out for Hispanics like Alexis Bledel and other white Argentinian Americans.
- From the same article: “2001 Houston Hispanic Entrepreneur of the Year award winner, Alan Vera, emphasizes the concept that a Hispanic can be represented by a non-Hispanic, a black can be represented by a non-black, a white can be represented by a non white. He urges the members to consider creating three to five districts based upon community interests and not skin color.”
Being an Hispanic, Alan Vera should really brush up on his Hispanic facts! (Hispanofacts?) It has nothing to do with race or skin color.
- The Pew Hispanic Center doesn’t get it either: “Latinos are less likely than whites to access the internet, have a home broadband connection or own a cell phone… Hispanics, on average, have lower levels of education and earn less than whites. Controlling for these factors, the differences in internet use, home broadband access and cell phone use between Hispanics and whites disappear. In other words, Hispanics and whites who have similar socioeconomic characteristics have similar usage patterns for these technologies.”
Since we all know “Latino” is not a race, these sentences are meaningless.
- The Pew Hispanic Center drops the ball again: “By their own reckoning, Latinos living in the United States do not have a national leader. When asked in an open-ended question to name the person they consider ‘the most important Latino leader in the country today,’ nearly two-thirds (64%) of Hispanic respondents said they did not know. An additional 10% said ‘no one.’”
Excuse me, but the President and First Lady love Mexican food, which is a part of Mexican culture, which makes them both part Hispanic. (I estimate their Hispanicity at 7 percent, according to my Hispanometer.) So. There.
- Check out all the smiling faces at the Hispanic College Fund and the Hispanic Scholarship Fund. It’s not like those kids generally have similar hair and skin, or anything.
- Hispanic Magazine’s list of Latino icons is great, but it should really make an effort to include more white and black people. Otherwise it’s discriminating against a majority of American Hispanics. (Not to mention 100 percent of Spanish Hispanics.)
- Don’t even get me started on La Raza. Someone should remind these so-called Hispanics they’re not a race! Sheesh.
Hispanic: it’s a race now. That seems to be what the brown “Hispanics” want anyway. Who are we to deny them it?
Appendix A: Interracial high-school [genetic inter]action
Consider, if you will, the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, published in 1976 by Sandra Scarr and Richard A. Weinberg. They devised an experiment to see if the IQ gap between black and white children was genetic or environmental (i.e., caused by some combination of white racism and the lousy neighborhoods, schools, and homes of the poorer black children) or genetic. (They favored the environmental explanation.)
A number of upper-middle-class white parents in Minnesota with above-average IQs had adopted children of various races. There were adopted kids with two white parents (we’ll call those children “white”), two black parents (“black”), and one white and one black parent (“interracial”). When the researchers tested the adopted children’s IQs at age 7, the white children scored 112, on average; the interracial children, 109; and the black children, 97. That’s the same 15-point IQ gap between whites and blacks you observe today, with the interracial children scoring somewhere in the middle. Most of the adopted children were tested again at age 17. Their IQ scores, their GPAs, their class ranks, and their school aptitudes showed the same order: white > interracial > black. Correcting for the Flynn effect only makes the gaps larger, without changing the order. That’s exactly what we would expect if IQ depended more on genes than on shared (or family) environment.
It’s not the only transracial adoption study, of course. Dr. J. Philippe Rushton, a psychologist at the University of Western Ontario and an expert on race and intelligence, put together a lot of different results in his book Race, Evolution, and Behavior.
But surely we can find some way to blame the environment for this. Maybe the black children were treated differently at school, and that accounts for their lower scores? Well, in that case, an interracial child identified and raised as black should score like a black child (they experience similar discrimination), and not as an interracial child raised as interracial (they have similar genes). Luckily for us, some of the parents did mistakenly believe they were raising black children. Those children’s scores were not significantly different from the other interracial children. Even their own parents couldn’t tell they were half white all along, yet they performed like all the other half-white children.
It’s pretty convincing stuff, but because these findings aren’t flattering to black people, Rushton has been called a racist and a white supremacist, among other nasty (and obviously false) things.
He has also been called “an honest and capable researcher” (E.O. Wilson, father of sociobiology), “widely known and respected for the unusual combination of rigour and originality in his work” (Hans Eysenck, Rushton’s doctoral supervisor and the most cited living psychologist at the time of his death). In Rushton’s own words: “from an evolutionary point of view, superiority can only mean adaptive value — if it even means this. And we’ve got to realize that each of these populations [races] is perfectly, beautifully adapted to their own ancestral environments.” That would make all races equally superior. Hurray!
Would these findings be controversial if we were discussing interracial pea plants? We can only speculate.
Appendix B: EuroTrip
Check out this Gene Expression article, “Genetic map of Europe; genes vary as a function of distance.” It’s talking about this 2008 paper in Nature (arguably the most prestigious science journal in the world). From the paper:
… Despite low average levels of genetic differentiation among Europeans, we find a close correspondence between genetic and geographic distances; indeed, a geographical map of Europe arises naturally as an efficient two-dimensional summary of genetic variation in Europeans. The results emphasize that when mapping the genetic basis of a disease phenotype, spurious associations can arise if genetic structure is not properly accounted for. In addition, the results are relevant to the prospects of genetic ancestry testing; an individual’s DNA can be used to infer their geographic origin with surprising accuracy–often to within a few hundred kilometres.
Don’t believe me? This is what you get if you plot the genetic variation between people from different countries, represented by colors (click for larger version). The axes have nothing to do with geography; they represent only the two largest components of genetic variation. Yet it looks quite like a map of Europe…
And this is what you get when you take the data on genetic variation and project it back onto a map of Europe (click for larger version). You can predict geographic origin very accurately.







Whoa, so the Scots and the Dutch are practically genetic twins? I did not see that one coming.
The important point is that Hispanics are different from whites and because of that difference are given preferential treatment over the founding stock of the country the moment they cross the border. And so will all of their “oppressed” descendants, forever and ever, amen.
The government assumes discrimination by evil racist whites against Latinos is inevitable without affirmative action preferences for them.
I just saw an article about congressional redistricting in my state. The professional Hispanic organizations are demanding that more districts must be gerrymandered to send more Latinos to congress. More Hispanic political power means less white political power.
Under the current system, Hispanic immigrants are not assimilable. If life among American whites is so horrible for these oppressed little angels then they shouldn’t be allowed to come here.
Re: life among American whites so horrible for these little angels
A wise man once said:
If our white majority nation
Has so much discrimination,
Let me float a plan to help the NAMs* survive:
Line them up, in any order,
Send them south across the border —
Hispanics can’t be racist, so they’ll thrive!
* Non-Asian Minorities
Wow, you took a long time to say something pretty simple: Hispanics are descendants of the combination of Spanish conquistadors (white Europeans) and American Indians (racially Asian), and whose native language is Spanish.
That could justify its own classification on the census (since there are so many of them), but it’s not – biologically – a race unto itself.
[In my view, there are three races - white, black (sub-saharan african ancestry), and asian - and everybody is one of those, a sub-unit (e.g., arab is white), or some combination.]
According to all official definitions, that is not what Hispanics are. Therein lies the problem.
Given that you only believe there are three races, I am very curious to learn your biological criterion that excludes an Hispanic race.
On the basis of genes and IQ scores alone, I do not consider American Indians “racially Asian.” See, e.g., L.L. Cavalli-Sforza’s “History and Geography of Human Genes” and R. Lynn’s “Race Differences in Intelligence.”
On the same basis, it is useful and natural to divide our species into more races, such as the aboriginal peoples of Australia and New Zealand, who cannot reasonably be considered white, black, or Asian. And whether you consider genotype or phenotype, there is more than one sub-Saharan African race; consider the pygmies.
My mother’s from Spain, does that make me Hispanic? I asked the girl from the census when she came to my house last year, and she said that I was whatever I said I was. And my wife is Brazilian, but all of her grandparents were from Germany. So I guess she’s Hispanic, too? I had no idea what to tell that girl. But looking at my Guatemalan neighbors, who looked like they were straight out of casting for Apocalypto, I had to say that we weren’t Hispanic, since we’re not very similar to them. But perhaps our children will be “Hispanic”, when it comes time to apply to college…
[...] I have been saved a lot of work because, as chance would have it, Unamusement Park and Steve Sailer have covered this already. Instead of an essay, I will just make a few points. [On [...]
[...] – “Hatred III: The Hispanic Panic“, “Debunking Race Denialism 1“, “Debunking Race Denialism 2: Luigi Luca [...]
wow, it’s as if you watched skip gates’s cuba episode from black in latin america and then come to a final point which is totally counter to the rest of the show.
because that’s what you’ve done. but i’m sure you know this already.
Why would I read or watch anything by Gates? He has no qualifications to discuss race. He’s just another college affirmative action hire.
Anyway, Hispanics are a race, genetically speaking — which is the only way to speak about race. You can tell them apart from Whites, Blacks, and Asians with 99.86 percent accuracy using just a few hundred genetic markers. And, y’know… they’re brown. Their crime rates and intelligence are worse than Whites and Asians, but better than Blacks, who as we all know are the worst at just about everything.
Come back when you have some coherent arguments. Of course, you won’t, because you don’t actually know anything about race. But you’re black, so — just like Skip Gates — you think you’re an expert.
you really need to read my response to this general article in my blog.
[I read it. You prattled on about the Amish. You didn't demonstrate any grasp of evolutionary biology.]
but in reference to your response to me just now…
so, um, where in latin america have you traveled? [Look, I know you think you're smart, and that you're "disproving" me or something, but you're not. You're black, so no one ever calls you out on this, but you're full of shit. You don't know anything about race. Traveling all around Latin America hasn't taught you anything about genetics. So all the rest of this is irrelevant:] let me show you where i’ve been:
http://kwerekwere.blogspot.com/2008/10/worldwide-travels.html
and that’s just the places i’ve been *after* the age of 16, when i started to have to pay for international travel myself. i don’t include [all of] the countries where i’ve been *before* the age of 16. (i’ll throw in three of the countries to which i’ve been as a kid: burundi, costa rica, and honduras.)
my parents’ line of work have had me in a *lot* of places, and in almost all of them, i was treated like a local. sometimes this was good; other times this was very, very bad — and a major reason why my parents decided i would go to secondary school in the united states.
funnily enough, on my *other* post of the day on which i posted my travel map, i mentioned a comment that my aunt made about the 2008 election. she doesn’t read and write that well in english, but does so wonderfully in spanish. [wait, how is this possible? if she's black, she can't be hispanic in your logic...] [It's not "logic," it's genetics. Your aunt is black. Speaking Spanish doesn't make her Hispanic. You just have a really stupid definition of "Hispanic."]
furthermore, the general racism and treatment of black people in latin america is a major reason that, despite having spanish as a first language and rather decent portuguese, i live in africa these days instead of latin america. my recent trip to brazil actually reinforced my reasoning to live in africa than latin america.
to be honest, you would come to a lot of the same conclusions if you watch the series, only listening to the people interviewed. if you have a multi-track sound system on your television, you can knock out the voice of the translator and hear everything in the original spanish [that's what i did].
[You're not making any sense. Pick something I actually wrote — not something you imagine that I wrote — and argue against it.]
so what would you call all of the black people throughout latin america, exactly? i mean, you give the white folks a pass, but not the black ones. interesting — but not unsurprising.
[I can't even figure out what you're trying to say. It's incoherent.
Living in Latin American doesn't make someone Hispanic. Being descended from a mix of Europeans and American Indians from Central and South America is what makes someone Hispanic. Black, White, Hispanic, East Asian: four distinct races.]
more than anything else, you’re pointing out the stupidity of the term. i’m not sure if you realise this. actually, it’s pretty clear that you don’t.
[Read my post. Try to comprehend it. Try real hard.]
cough up the cash for a passport, and some plane tickets, and do some travelling. seriously. you really need to.
[And you need to read some books. Seriously. You really need to.]
Holy shit. I just looked at kwerekwere’s blog. The guy is a fucking retard.
What a waste of 5 minutes…
It’s really quite simple. “Hispanics” are whose native language is Spanish (as distinct from actual Spaniards).
They are of mixed race: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid, in varying numbers and proportions, depending on their country of origin.
By extension, the label may include those descended from actual Hispanics, as we sometimes loosely call the likes of Rudy Giuliani and Al D’Amato “Italians.”
See the section on how “Hispanic” is used in the news.
We have a name for people whose native language is Spanish: “Spanish speakers.”
If you or I learned to speak Spanish, would we not, too, be “Spanish speakers”?
Yes, we would. But we wouldn’t be Hispanic.
Someone said that their mom was from spain and his wife was a german decended brazilian, and they didn’t know if they should put hispanic when they saw their guatemalan neighbours…..
I’m am primarily of italian and spanish blood with a small amount of native american and I my parents were born in guatemala, my family does not consider themselves hispanic because of the italian ancestry and we feel that although we speak spanish, we aren’t hispanic, but latino. The natives of guatemala look distinctly different from a lot of “mixed” guatemalans, and I being of more european blood find it weird to say that they are hispanic as well. Although I have some native american, I consider myself white.. I have a friend and she is not of a latin american country, but is also native american and white(I think german) and she still considers herself white. So making Hispanic a race is unsuitable since they may “look” brown but be german and native without any spanish origin or someother combination without being of spanish decent.
Those who are mixed are of varying european and other ancestry.
i watched the group matches of the copa america and i’m like “boy, is this guy an idiot. i wonder what his explanation is of the peruvian, colombian, costa rican and especially the ecuadorian teams.”
[hint: the ecuadorian team - a bunch of black guys. seriously. look it up -- wait, i'll do it for you: http://tinyurl.com/equipo-ecuatoriano
of course, you'll probably say something like "oh, they were probably smuggled in from cuba or something; everyone knows there aren't any black people in ecuador."]
but “hispanic” is a race. oh-kay. whatever helps you sleep at nite, buddy.
read what demi has to say, for content. and pay attention to where s/he says that you’re wrong. again, it helps having, oh, lived in latin america to get it.
I hate the Hispanic labeling. I am half Aryan and half Roman. In fact, my mother’s last name is the same as a Roman senator. I look like Snow White. But I’m part of the vibrant Hispanic “community” in America. Yuck. How stupid. What’s weird, is that South American culture is very anti-american (having really internalized American Jewish propaganda about whites being stupid, evil, bumbling etc) and therefore all white South Americans I know do not like to be associated as white, but as “argentinian” or “peruvian” or whatever. I think some of them are a lost cause.
kwerek- if you were born in Latin America the United States qualifies you as “hispanic” regardless. I have a 100% Chinese friend whose grandparents immigrated to Panama. She had to put “Hispanic” in all government forms, as do I, a 100% lily white Euro specimen.
If you are black, Asian, white etc, if you were born in Latin America you are Hispanic (save military kids). I remember this dark black Dominican guy complaining about “n*ggers” when my husband pointed out he was black. “Nuh uhhhh!! I’m DOMINICAN!”
It is absurd. If I was born in Shanghai would I be “Asian”? Bah. So dumb.
Race, ethnicity, and country of origin are indeed a complicated stew. In fact, I think the fact that race can be determined by forensic DNA analysis is one of the few very solid pieces of data we can have about a person. That and country of origin and maybe score on the TSWE.
Ideology, ethnicity, and religion are much murkier.
Where are you from, Flavia? I bet it’s not Bolivia. If it were there would be a picture of you wearing a bowler hat, right?
Ugh, the bowler hats. They’re British, you know. I’m Peruvian. To which everyone who I ever say that to says, “Oh my gosh, you don’t look it!”… as if it was a compliment.
“Ugh, the bowler hats”
?!?!?!
Bowler hats rock! I wants one for my big ol’ she-noggin.
I think at some point, a cultural artifact becomes the property of whoever does it most, best. So bowler hats are Bolivian, rock and roll is British, and English is American.
Oops, now some Britons are going to want to throw me in gaol. Or strap me to the bonnet of a lorry. Or spill pudding on my waistcoat. But seriously, I really like the British practice of putting female police officers in bowlers. They look very serious in them.
Anyway, next time someone says you don’t look Peruvian, show them a picture of Pres. Fujimori. That’ll show ‘em.
Why would I read or watch anything by Gates? He has no qualifications to discuss race. He’s just another college affirmative action hire.
This is a bit outside the point, but you’re sort-of overlumping together a lot of these black academics you criticize; i mean, Gates is your real-life strawman of recent years because of the symbolized, highly publicized brouhahas he’s been involved in. But he is NOT some Karenga-like afro-nationalist ranter; he know his stuff, educated at Yale and Cambridge, and thoiroughly voiced in both clasisical European and ‘New-World” humanities; he’s quite capable of holding forth on topics y’al here would both approve and disapprove of. Also, in casual conversation, it’s clear he’s capable and comfortable with both black and white academic settings and situations. I mean, some of your vitriol isn’t too finely parsed; Gates probably knows and is better-versed in classical European literature than many of you who comment on this blog. Perhaps be a bit more nuanced in your attack before you write him off as a ‘affirmative-action’ hire. sometimes these pro-white blogs speak of people like Skip Gates and Anthony Appiah in the same way they describe the likes of Khalid muhammad and Louis Farrakhan. (in fact, Gates wrote one of the most widely read and cited critical profiles of Farrakhan)
I should move to the UK and become a police officer. Then I could arrest rampaging muslims AND wear a bowler hat!
I agree with you, nikcrit, in that my only goal was to infuriate that idiot “kwerekwere” and make him go away. It’s not like he had anything to contribute (see above).
That said: “Skip” Gates may be Yale and Cambridge-educated (which technically doesn’t contradict “affirmative action hire”) in whatever passes for the “humanities” these days. He may be comfortable in “black and white academic settings,” whatever those are (and I’m very tempted to dismiss one of them out of hand). He may be well versed in classical European literature (which is not particularly relevant to this blog). He may also be highly critical of Farrakhan. I still think he is a lying, race-baiting clown.
Dude, you are severely overthinking this (or are you just being sarcastic?). Hispanics are people native to countries colonized by Spain. They’re not Spaniards, though they speak Spanish, any more than Americans are Englishmen though we speak English. They’re not a race, but a mixture of races. The confusion arises because they’re immigrating into a country neurotically-obsessed with racial categories they just don’t fit into.
It is impossible to bring up Hispanics in a race-realist context without some “anti-racist” libtard proclaiming: “HISPANIC ISN’T A RACE! ONLY IGNORANT RACISTS SAY IT IS!” This, from the people who claim race does not exist anyway. Their iron-clad argument for the non-racial nature of Hispanics: “DURRR THE CENSUS BUREAU SAYS IT’S AN ETHNICITY*.” (*Undefined term.)
This post is my attempt to explain why “Hispanic” ought to be considered a race. I’m not “overthinking” the matter. What I’m doing is thinking about it. The post explains why your definition (“Hispanics are people native to countries colonized by Spain”) doesn’t really work: it’s not the way most people, Hispanics included, understand the term; and language is defined by usage. (What you’ve done is define “Latin American.”)
Hispanic is a race — the product of miscegenation between Spanish men and South/Central American Indian women. Lots of people who are called “Hispanic” (by the Census Bureau and the aforementioned “anti-racist” libtards, though not by sensible people) are racially white or American Indian, and should properly be called “Latin American” — that is, if we want our terminology to agree with usage.
On the subject of language, usage, and race: if I mention “Hispanic immigrants,” do you perhaps picture brown-colored people?
I use “Hispanic” to mean Spanish-American. You use it to mean mestizo (Spanish for “mixed,” which just goes to show that they are not actually a single distinct race). Since most Hispanics in fact are mestizos, and since the post-”Civil Rights” era has enshrined non-white skin privilege, that’s how they’ve been shoehorned into our racial caste system.
So “Spanish-American” also means “people native to countries colonized by Spain” (your definition of “Hispanic”)? Presumably this does not include Spain itself — unless Spaniards are also Spanish-Americans. And when was the United States of America colonized by Spain? If not, there are surely no Hispanics born here. And what about former Spanish colonies in Africa? Are there Spanish-Americans kicking around there?
If you allow two populations (two races) to interbreed long enough, they cease to be “mixed,” and become a new race. Although there are white Latin Americans and American-Indian Latin Americans, there are also “mestizo” Latin Americans (by at least one definition of “mestizo,” which is a term with a lot of historical/cultural baggage), who match our working societal definition of “Hispanic.”
(What “working societal definition”? Well, let’s ask ourselves, quite seriously: who does La Raza stand for?)
Maybe you should just read the section of my post entitled “The Hispanic race”:
This is not an issue you can just dismiss out of hand, defining it away, though you certainly seem to be trying.
Well, for one thing, Latin America includes Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Hence, Brazilians aren’t Hispanic. Hence, “Hispanic” does not equal “Latin American.” And as I said already, Spaniards themselves are definitely not Hispanics, any more than Hispanics are Spaniards.
For another thing, Vicente Fox and Fidel Castro (for instance) are clearly Hispanic. They’re also white.
As for La Raza, they stand for Hispanics-in-the-USA, fitting themselves into a racial caste system where not being white gives them leverage. Even if they actually are white. Like these people:
http://216.97.229.165/diverse/img/photos/biz/latinos_obama.gif
You’ve succeeded in defining away the issue: Brazilians don’t speak Spanish, therefore they are not Hispanic. Easy. No need to consider genetics at all.
To define one’s race/ethnicity, a person should be given a list of the major racial/ethnic groups of the world (a list that would go something like Europe, Northeast Asia, Southeast Asia, Indian Sub-Continent, Middle East/North Africa, Sub-Saharan/Western Africa, Native North America, Native South America, Inuit)… with the person then checking off which of those most accurately describes their racial/ethnic origin. (And if you wanted to be more accurate, you can even have the person assign some basic percentages.)
I would mark off 100% Europe. A half white half black American would check off 50% Europe, 50% sub-saharan Africa. And so on.
[...] a liberal will say “Hispanics ARE white”. Is that so? Then how come people on the Right are racist for not wanting Mexicans to cross our border [...]